Talking With Richard Cobo & Parsa Sabet (Rio Sueño) – September 25, 2023

Ira Sternberg: "Frank Sinatra had the World on a String, but my guests have the world on 12 strings. Ricardo Cobo, multi-award-winning guitar virtuoso, and Parsa Sabet are the guitar duo known as Rio Sueno, performing in the Judy Bailey Theater at the UNLV Performing Arts Center at the beginning of its 47th season this Friday, September 29th at 7:30. For ticket information, go to pac.unlv.edu. And for everything about Ricardo, go to ricardocobo.com, and you can follow him on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube, and follow Parsa on Instagram and Facebook. And Ricardo, Parsa, welcome to the show."

Ricardo Cobo: "Thanks, man. Pleasure being here."

Parsa Sabet: "Great."

Ira Sternberg: "Now, so first of all, let's get this out of the way because it's important. Rio Sueno, it means Dream River or River of Dreams, or both?"

Ricardo Cobo: "Either way, both. It was mostly a concept that included just collaborating a lifetime of experiences together, something we had not done as a teacher and student. And there's an idea that we played around for many months and years, and until somebody just said, 'Hey, let's put a show together.' This is your dream, this is a River of Dreams. So I guess there's a confluence, and the two of us are combining currents, and we're combining ideas to form this duo."

Ira Sternberg: "Judging by looking at the two of you, I think that you, Ricardo, have a little bit more life experience, although his story is interesting, we're going to get into it. But would I be correct in assuming that you have a little bit more of that life experience?"

Ricardo Cobo: "Oh, absolutely, yes. There are a few decades in between there, in terms of not only from your years of playing guitar but from your years of your hair growing a certain way."

Ira Sternberg: "Yes, absolutely. Nothing I can do about that except capitalize on it. Exactly, correct. So tell us, first, before we get into too much detail about your upcoming performance at the Judy Bailey Theater, it's the Performing Arts Center, where did the two of you meet, Parsa?"

Parsa Sabet: "Uh, we met right here. The first time I was a teenager, I think I was 14 years old, and I came to the United States, and I wanted to find a guitar teacher. And I entered my high school, and they referred me to Ricardo Cobo, and I just knocked on his door, and there we are. That's how we met."

Ira Sternberg: "Your accent is interesting because the average person listening to it may think that you're from Spain or Mexico, but actually, you're not."

Parsa Sabet: "No, I'm originally from Iran."

Ira Sternberg: "Yeah, this is a Persian accent like this."

Parsa Sabet: "Yes, it is, but it does sound a little Spanish to me. I mean, Ricardo, what do you think? Am I totally off about the Spanish accent part?"

Ricardo Cobo: "No, I think many people, actually, it's funny you mentioned that because many people, when they see us together, they assume he's Hispanic, and of course, it's not the case. And they assume that I'm something they can't really tell where I'm from, but I'm actually Hispanic. But, you know, my family is actually from the Middle East, so we're a lot closer. My both my parents came from Lebanese and Syrian families, so we share some commonalities in terms of the general location in the globe and the music that we actually grew up listening together. And that's really one of the key ingredients that brought us together was the affinity with the music that we really love and that really moves us emotionally. I think that was a huge part of why we identified with each other."

Ira Sternberg: "And also too, Ricardo, because you teach so many different students, it would be easy to get distracted by student A versus student B versus student C, etc. And yet the two of you, as you say, got together for a number of reasons, not just the affinity but the talent and what you saw in him that made you guys get together. So, is this your first performance as a duo, again Rio Sueno? Is this your first performance?"

Ricardo Cobo: "This is not actually. We've done a couple of performances prior to this one at the Family Music Center. We did a couple of experimental run-throughs. We had so much fun with it, and we had a common experience with our audience and Parsa's audience. You know, we have like two distinct audiences, and they both overlap. So that was very unique, and that created an excitement and an expectation. And so this will be a first really formal experience in Las Vegas as part of the Performing Arts Center."

Ira Sternberg: "Right, for those listening and watching from outside of Las Vegas, the Performing Arts Center is its beginning of its 47th season, so it's a pretty impressive history of an institution. It's the original home for the arts in southern Nevada. It opened in 1976, right?"

Ricardo Cobo: "Right, right. So I just wanted to point that out to people that may not be aware of the background. And Parsa, when you had an opportunity to work with Ricardo, were you… I don't want to put words in your mouth… were you overwhelmed? I'm not sure how to say 'overwhelmed' in Farsi, but were you overwhelmed with working with Ricardo because of his unique background and his esteemed background?"

Parsa Sabet: "Well, I don't… I feel like it's kind of funny that you mentioned that because in the studio with other students, there's always this feeling of being overwhelmed when they're taking lessons or working with Ricardo. I never felt that way, actually. Like, a lot of the pieces that we are playing or the pieces that I learned how to sight-read music or, you know, they were like the beginning stages until like now that it's been almost a decade I've been working there are some pieces that I'm learning, and of course, Ricardo always has great ideas, and so it's always a back-and-forth thing. I think I never looked at our work in a way of like, 'Oh, I'm intimidated.' I always looked at it as, 'Oh, there's something to learn in every rehearsal,' and it's that's why I think we both love rehearsal and playing guitar is always a learning experience."

Ricardo Cobo: "Ricardo, I get the feeling that Parsa respects you as not only a mentor, a teacher, but as in the best way, an equal in terms of when you perform, whether it's in rehearsal or actually performing. And I think that's important because you, as who you are, you don't want to have someone with you performing who's intimidated or overwhelmed by you. That's going to affect the performance, I would think."

Ricardo Cobo: "Yeah, I mean, I think that's one of the key ingredients in our getting along and rehearsing for a higher… you know, to define the art form. I mean, for both of us, it was an artistic, aesthetic, and personal challenge. It elevated both of our games. So, I was keenly aware of that. I was never… my intuition never told me we're dealing with an unequal relationship. On the contrary, it was a relationship where we were both garnering enormous mutual respect and enormous excitement about what could lead… and musically, what it could lead us to. And so, we are very quickly, the more we play and the more we rehearse, the more we discover we could go here and here and here. So, the possibilities… this is where the idea of Rio Sueno really comes alive. If let the river flow, you know, throw in all the ideas. There's a lot to do here, and the sky's the limit. So, I feel that I have a colleague that can do that with me, despite the age difference and the experience difference. I think my experience obviously counts for a lot, and his youth counts for a lot, and they complement each other. I really do believe that."

Ira Sternberg: "Today, Parsa, you didn't hear it from me, but maybe you can talk him into, you know, you can stay at the house with Ricardo and his wife, and that way, save a lot of living expenses. Just a thought, you know."

Parsa Sabet: "Wouldn't even get around to it."

Ira Sternberg: "So, and you could do it under the umbrella of, well, we have to rehearse a lot. I might as well just sit here."

Parsa Sabet: "Well, we almost have done stuff like that. We've been traveling, and, you know, sometimes we spend a week like in nature and, you know, like having a rehearsed for hours every day to because the rep is heavy and difficult, you know, like I had to up my game, basically."

Ricardo Cobo: "Yeah, on the same pace. But yeah, we have done stuff like that."

Ira Sternberg: "How do you both look at the challenges of playing classical guitar versus any other kind of guitar? And when I say classical guitar, obviously, the music itself as well as the instrument."

Ricardo Cobo: "That's a really great question. I mean, the challenge for us has been… well, I mean, can we do a number of things? Of course. Because of Parsa's unique background and my unique background… I mean, I grew up with a lot of South American music, Colombian music, Mexican music, and music of Argentina. I mean, Tango was an integral part of Colombian culture, and Flamenco was an integral part of Parsa's background. So, we both sort of came together with the Flamenco in the Overland. So, why did we decide to go this way? Well, because classical music, classical music is a setting that lets us explore with a lot more freedom what's out there and lets us incorporate into our playing styles because we both have a lot of extended techniques that are very unique with the two of us. It allows us to experiment in color and prepare the music in ways that go beyond what a classical score is able to do. And we both found that. So, we don't want to go into pop culture Flamenco and into pop culture Hispanic music because that's a really wide swath of choices there. And it's important for us to put our art, in other words, our craft, on a very high level. And I think the classical setting lets us do that and brings focus to the essence of the music rather than to the personalities and the music."

Ira Sternberg: "So, in other words, I can't sign you up for a mariachi band, that's what you're saying?"

Ricardo Cobo: "No, wait, we've done…"

Parsa Sabet: "The movies together. So, I hired Parsa to be my rhythm extra, and he was, you know, far and beyond more than that. And that was truly a partnership that came together with a music specialty that we both had some experience with but had never really put it to the test."

Ira Sternberg: "So, there's a psychological question for you. Do you see a lot of yourself in Parsa?"

Ricardo Cobo: "Oh, absolutely. I think it's unavoidable. I mean, you know, when I started playing guitar, also it was a very early… you know, my experience with music came very early, you know, when I was a child. And both… I mean, my mom was a musician, so practicing and the ethics and the emotional considerations of raising a musical family were there. So, when I saw him knock on my door, I thought, 'Oh my God, this is 360 on.' And this is me, you know, 35 years ago. Like, and I know what I'm seeing. I know exactly what's happening here. And that truly was unusual. I have to say that that was a window to the soul in many other guys."

Ira Sternberg: "Absolutely, coming full circle."

Parsa Sabet: "Yes, definitely."

Ira Sternberg: "How about you, Parsa? Do you… did you see a little bit of yourself, perhaps looking to the future?"

Parsa Sabet: "It was kind of funny because, um, I mean, coming from a third-world country, I think when they met me, they're like, 'Oh, you're an old soul.' Like, you kind of, uh, you know, they would ask me, like, 'What do you listen to?' and, 'What do you play?' And a lot of the experiences that I had as a kid, um, like having the old films and listening to Segovia and Julian Bream, was what Ricardo… he, when he was thinking of a teenager or, you know, so it was very similar in terms of what our ears are tuned in. And I think, um, in terms of Rio Sueno, we kind of go back to the source of the river of what it is that we identify with in the classical world. Like, I do play music from Spain, Flamenco, and works by Mexican composers, and I think it's because there's a meeting of the East and the West in that part of the world, where there's the Middle Eastern music and the Western classical kind of meet there. And that's where I find myself. My voice is there, basically. So, when we met, he… I realized, like, 'Oh, you know, your family is from Lebanon, and you went to Colombia, and you played this repertoire.' And it was very interesting to me that we… I was like, 'Oh, I found the teacher that I wanted to learn from.' You know, it was a great meeting."

Ira Sternberg: "Yeah, how hard was it for you to make that transition to travel from the other side of the world to the United States at a very young age, actually, and then to be able to succeed not only in high school but then at UNLV, and then you graduated UNLV as well, and you're continuing, and here you are performing? I'm sure you didn't even realize you would be doing this three years ago, performing at the Performing Arts Center. It's quite a compliment."

Parsa Sabet: "Because I, like every year, I would go to see like my role models or the superstars that I always dreamed of seeing in the concert hall at UNLV's guitar series. And then I never saw a student be able to do it, so it was like a huge honor for me to be able to do it. But that was a dream, basically, when I left Iran. I took guitar lessons when I was like 12, and I heard some pieces, and I thought, 'This is the coolest thing. I want to be able to perform this.' But it's really difficult to do that in a country where music is almost illegal to listen to. So, I thought, 'I'll leave and come to the US and I'll figure it out, but I want to go get a degree in it because I couldn't do that in Iran.'"

Ira Sternberg: "Right, and you got that in 2022, you got the degree in…"

Parsa Sabet: "Yes, what was the degree in? I assume music, right?"

Ira Sternberg: "Yes, okay, good. But yeah, it takes a certain amount of fortitude, again at a young age, to be able to make those choices and those decisions. I'm sure it wasn't easy. And then, Ricardo, you spotted him at a time, as you said, it was 360, coming full circle. You spotted the spark, the talent, the drive, and all of that, and probably, you took it in, in other words, you took it all in in one second and realized what the potential was there."

Ricardo Cobo: "I did. Once we sat down, I mean, once we sat down and I… you know, because I interview a lot of different kids, and over 30, 40 years of teaching, you know, you meet… you can imagine, I mean, as it is in your profession, you think you've met everybody until one day, that is a game-changer. So, when we sit down to play, I realized this guy is connected. Like, he… the message is very clear. I know where he is. I saw myself immediately in that. I mean, and our stories are very similar in that respect. I mean, I wasn't fleeing a country. I was leaving the country where I was raised, and but I had a dream. I had the same dream, and I thought, 'I can't do it here. I have to go somewhere else.' And when I came to the US, I went straight to Peabody. I mean, I enrolled in a program that was from Colombia for people who does, right? Absolutely. I left at 18. I enrolled in it, and it was a very competitive music program, probably the most competitive music program at that time, and I had no guarantees. Just like when Parsa came here, I looked at his face, and I thought, 'Boy, clueless. Like, we need to connect them. We need to create a road here. I know how to do this. I've done this before.' Not only in my own experience but, you know, dealing with a lot of kids who came from other worlds, you know, especially from Latin America. People had no way, they didn't want no roadmap, no directions, no cues, no guidance, no mentorship. So, we created that for each other in a way. It was a… you know, it was not entirely a giving situation. Parsa responded, and he gave me things that I had not dreamed were possible. So, for both of us, it was a nurturing environment with a lot of excitement, personal competition, you know, high standards, and that metabolized. And I don't know where ultimately that's going to lead us, but it's a good place to be. It's not an experience that I think, if I had to do it again, I would not do it. It's an experience that was very welcomed in my life, for sure."

Ira Sternberg: "There was something you said, Ricardo, which for those of us who are non-musicians, don't think about, but typically, if someone came to my office and wanted to be interviewed or apply for something, you would talk. And yet, you said, 'And we played.' And I thought, well, of course, that makes sense because you're both musicians, so of course, you would play. But you don't think about it initially if you're not a musician. You just figure you're going to come in and talk to the teacher about a potential way, path forward, and not… and then you go, 'Oh no, we'll start and play, and then we'll get a sense of what you really can do.' I mean, that's always a fascinating thing to me as well."

Ricardo Cobo: "Like, what are you made of? I mean, basically, you know, when musicians meet, there's that sizzling moment when you pull out your instrument and you start playing. That moment defines everything. Like, people in music know that. That's like, play that movie, man. That movie is an amazing movie. The moment people play music, it's like, boom. It just defies any explanation you may have had or any expectation you may have had before. And Parsa came in with a really, really bizarre guitar made by somebody in Iran. I don't know if it was family, but I mean, it was… it was not exactly a POS, but it was a guitar that was very hard to play, and it was set up so high. I was shocked when he started playing. I was like, 'How in the world can you play that guitar?' So, it was comical and endearing at the same time, you know, to see that happen because it's like, you know, it's the same story when I came to the states. I had a $200 guitar that somebody had made me in a workshop, and that's where we came from. You know, those humble beginnings do have a way of defining the road for you as you go along."

Ira Sternberg: "And also, I would think the proof is in the playing, in that sense, that even if you had your insight into him, that you said to yourself, 'Okay, Parsa comes across a certain way, but until he starts whipping out the guitar and playing it, you're not convinced yet.' Until that moment, then you, as you say, the magic happens, and, 'Oh yes, of course, that confirms it all.'"

Ricardo Cobo: "Absolutely. I barely spoke English, so there wasn't much to say, you know, 'Hello, how are you?' and that's it. I don't know anything else. And it was kind of hilarious to see him in lessons, and he would like, 'Ricardo, I don't know what that means,' and he would like, 'Okay, simplify, simplify, simplify.' He's like, 'Let me just show you,' and he would just play it, and I would then understand it. But I remember when I got his name from my high school teachers, they looked up who's teaching at UNLV, and then they found Ricardo. And when I told my first guitar teacher in Iran that I'm going to Ricardo Cobo for an audition, he said, 'You mean Ricardo Cobo, like the guy that has the Leo Brouwer albums?' and he was freaking out, and he was telling everyone in his academy. And I showed up, and he's like, 'Alright, play something.' And I played like a classical piece, and he's like, 'Okay, what do you listen to?' I started playing Flamenco and compositions, and it was like a 20-minute presentation of everything I can show you, like a showcase."

Ira Sternberg: "Yeah, and it was truly dazzling. I mean, because it's… I have to say, there was a very unusual meeting in that the level of intensity and the level of knowledge and the level of emotional commitment to the art was beyond most individuals that step into my studio. I mean, it was really of a different ilk. The whole thing felt completely different. It felt like my own audition in that way. It was a little bit haunting in that way. When I first auditioned for my instructor at Peabody, he was just looking at me like I was some kind of weird bug that just popped into his office. And I was having a much different experience. I was going, 'Wow, there is hope. Like, there's a sincere young man who actually has a gift. Like, that is the coolest thing I've ever seen.'"

Parsa Sabet: "Any of my other students, but I mean, you know, that's an unusual moment, and those unusual moments are the ones that create enduring events in your life."

Ricardo Cobo: "In order for me to get my visa to come here, I spent like more than a year in Turkey, right, but I wasn't able to go to school, so I had a lot of time on my hand. I just had to wait, and it was quite a stressful timeline. It was… I remember those days. But all I had was my instruments, so I practiced. I remember one day I played 12 hours a day. I don't recommend that; you can injure yourself. I practiced so much, so when I got here, I had this envision of, 'I'm gonna play this audition for someone for a year,' as a 14-year-old. And when I got here, there was the audition, and there were many more auditions after that."

Ira Sternberg: "Well, your English now is wonderful. And how do the two of you decide what the program will be again? It's coming up this Friday, September 29th, at 7:30 at Judy Bailey Theater at the Performing Arts Center. How do you decide the program, and if you could give us just a little, if you wish, a little sample of what's coming up?"

Ricardo Cobo: "You know, we decided… I mean, we, when we began reading, because this is all about reading, it's like sharing a meal. Here's a loaf of bread, here we go, cut it in half, have a piece, have a piece. So, we began with some obvious things, La Vida Breve, then we decided we both love Piazzolla, let's do the Piazzolla suite. Of course, this is excruciatingly difficult piece, but we both knew we could tackle that. We both knew together we can make this work. You know, if it were any other setting, it would not happen. And then we both love Latin American music, to a T. I mean, we both really connect fundamentally with it. So, we chose the music of Eduardo Martin from Cuba, and of course, the music of Gismonti from Brazil, and the list goes on. I mean, we explored that repertoire, and fortunately, that repertoire for the guitar is fertile. There's a lot of stuff out there, some you have to put together, some you have to rearrange, but the commonalities were in the choice of our repertoire. We both identified with the rep, and the things that we're planning, the concert, the fire, Piazzolla, Umonti, more Piazzolla in my case, more Martine in my case, Ponce, Rodrigo, Rodrigo, and Parsa's own composition. Those are all born of this place where we're sharing and putting ideas together. That's how we came up with the program."

Parsa Sabet: "Well, I mean, you told my rep, it's basically that. I think I'm playing a little bit more of the standards and the traditional pieces that I learned while I was working with Ricardo during my undergraduate, and it basically the source of the repertoire that started it from Spain, and as the Segovia repertoire, basically. And that Ricardo is playing his favorites, the Latin works."

Ira Sternberg: "So, yeah, that's basically the rep. Sounds like a good mix."

Ricardo Cobo: "It is a really fun mix. It's… there's a lot of rhythm and a lot of Flamenco, Middle Eastern flavors, and definitely, you know, Cuban music roots in this music. Absolutely. So, do you want us to play a sample of one of the pieces?"

Ira Sternberg: "That would be outstanding, yes."

[Music performance follows]

Ira Sternberg: "Do you think there's going to be an album in your future?"

Ricardo Cobo: "Well, we have talked about that, and of course, we'd like to do that. That's something that we have commented on in today's digital space. I think we're going to create a series of events, maybe perhaps rather than an album by itself, but that is certainly something that's in the works, and that we've considered. And of course, I always egg on Parsa to write his own music and tourings because I think he's a particularly uniquely gifted individual when it comes to arranging and writing music. So, when the time is right, that certainly is going to be in place. That certainly is the thing we're going to pursue."

Ira Sternberg: "And Parsa, how nerve-wracking is it for you to be on the stage of the Performing Arts Center, Judy Bailey Theater, in front of a lot of people performing where you were sitting in the audience watching performances? Is that going to be a little crazy for you, do you think? That just sheer rehearsal will take that surprise element or that nervous element out of you?"

Parsa Sabet: "Um, well, I don't know about now because, I mean, Ricardo made sure that I perform enough before walking onto the concert series. But it's a little different because as a student, there's rep class, and you're constantly performing for colleagues. But for concerts, sometimes you spend six months really practicing, and then here's the night. So, the pressure is very different. I experienced it, I would say, the few hours before walking on stage, it's very scary, and you hear the audience and everything. But then when we start playing and be tuned in, I just don't see the audience anymore. It's just about the music, everyone's tuning in, and you're sharing, and it's a beautiful moment that I don't want to ruin it by being nervous. Excitement is a better word."

Ira Sternberg: "You're in the zone."

Ricardo Cobo: "Absolutely, and something that happens to both of us when we know it's time to play is that we up our game. And the nerves, it's a good nervousness. You know, some people are very different with their performances, but we certainly find that when we get together to play, there's fire. Like, we're both holding each other to the fire, and it's a very exciting feeling, like, 'This is going to be very cool.' So, the expectation is always really positive. There's not dread, you know, there's not fear. It's more like, 'Let's take this bull by the horns. Here we go.'"

Ira Sternberg: "Last question, what do you want the audience to take away from the performance when they leave? Not that you can always dictate what that is, but what would you like them to take away from the performance?"

Parsa Sabet: "Alright, that's a great question. It's really hard to, like, um, I mean, you kind of answered the question. It's really hard to have any expectations from the audience, but I would wish to have them enjoy the music for sure. But I think each person has their own experience and dream when they're listening to classical music because we all relate to each other from our own… the feelings are the same, you know, but the experiences are different. So when you're in a room, and there are 200 people really connecting about one thing, then that's priceless, and that's what I want them to experience."

Ricardo Cobo: "What I'd like the audience to take away, I mean, the whole is, is that Rio Sueno embodies what are unusual, you know, what is an unusual collaboration of things that for others might be obvious. But Rio Sueno is a dream that applies to all artists. Like, anything is possible if you have an idea and an open heart, and you want to put those things that really, really move you in life together. This is the result, River of Dreams. If you put those two giant forces and life stories together, they produce something very unique and very memorable. And I think people do remember. They remember us, the personalities, but they also remember the music, the collaboration, the river, the river of music that's happening, is what I hope people will take away."

Ira Sternberg: "Well, that's a great way to leave it. My guests have been Ricardo Cobo, multi-award-winning guitar virtuoso, and Parsa Sabet, the guitar duo known as Rio Sueno, performing in the Judy Bailey Theater at UNLV Performing Arts Center at the beginning of its 47th season this Friday, September 29th at 7:30. For ticket information, go to pac.unlv.edu. And for everything about Ricardo, go to ricardocobo.com. You can follow him on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube, and follow Parsa on Instagram and Facebook. Ricardo, Parsa, thanks for being on the show. It's been a pleasure. We appreciate the opportunity. See you next time."