Talking With Dee Lucas – October 16, 2023

Ira Sternberg: There's jazz, and there's sax, and there's my guest, saxophonist, recording artist, and composer Dee Lucas. He's performing in the Copa Room at The Bootlegger Italian Bistro this Friday, October 20th, at 9:00 PM. For ticket information, go to aegrlv.com, and for everything about Dee Lucas, including his new album "No Boundaries," go to dlucas.com. You can follow him on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. And Dee, welcome to the show.

Dee Lucas: Hey, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure.

Ira Sternberg: So, why the sax? How's that for a question?

Dee Lucas: You know, when I was growing up, I was a big fan of the bass guitar, but as I got older and in college, that's when I started gravitating to the saxophone, thanks to Grover Washington Jr.

Ira Sternberg: Well, I guess you could have done both, could have kept the guitar in the repertoire, right?

Dee Lucas: Yeah, actually, I could have, but sax, it's just something about that voice, man. You know, I was just thinking, and this is going to sound a little bit awful, but some people think about sex on the road, but in your case, it's sax on the road because you're always touring as well as recording albums.

Dee Lucas: People tease me all the time. They call me the road warrior because I'm constantly on the road, but you know, I really enjoy performing for people. I really think that's my true calling.

Ira Sternberg: So, what is the most exotic locale you've been to? Has it been somewhere in the United States or overseas? Where have you been?

Dee Lucas: I haven't been overseas yet; that's already in the plans for next year, 2024. But I would say, most exotic, I really can't say of exotic, but just so, I think some of the coolest spots I performed was in San Diego. The West Coast is really nice, some beautiful scenes, some of the venues that are very pleasant. Now, I tell you, I have one coming up in Sedona near those Red Rocks, man, I just cannot wait to perform there.

Ira Sternberg: Yeah, that's an exciting place, and that is actually, it's unique, and it is exotic in its own way, even though it's domestic. So that's great that you're going there as well. Is this your first time in Las Vegas performing, or have you been here before?

Dee Lucas: Actually, I've been to Las Vegas a couple of times, a couple of times.

Ira Sternberg: Okay, great. When you were first growing up, and you talked about changing over from instrument one to instrument two, which is now instrument one, of course, the sax, did you have any professional role models in a way, people that you looked up to from just listening to their recordings or watching their performances, or people that you met? Was there anybody that had a major influence on you?

Dee Lucas: Actually, it was a combination of both. Let's start with recordings. My love affair with the saxophone started with Grover Washington, George Howard, David Sanborn, Ronnie Laws, and then also some of the more traditional guys like Coltrane, Miles. But saxophone, Grover Washington, man, that was where a lot of my influence came from. George Howard, that smooth sound but at the same time very melodic. Now, in terms of direct friends, it wasn't until I moved to Atlanta, and I started seeing some of the local musicians. Now, they are the ones that really inspired me to push forward and pursue a musical career. I used to go out to the jazz clubs and used to see them, and I tell you, once you listen to some of the live performances from some of these talented musicians in Atlanta, it gave me the hunger to move forward. So it was very inspiring to see some of these cats.

Ira Sternberg: If you want to give them a shout-out, feel free. If you want to mention any.

Dee Lucas: Yes, yes indeed. A big shout-out to Melvin Miller, Antonio Allen, Jimmy Brown, we call him the sax player from Brick, Darren Emery, it's just so many.

Ira Sternberg: Kelly O'Neal plays a lot with Eric Essex, and a lot of the great smooth jazz artists today. And if I didn't mention your name, don't worry about it because I just sprung the question on him, and he did pretty good naming at least six or seven people. So that was great that you're able to do that.

Dee Lucas: Absolutely. Matter of fact, it's very interesting because sometimes now they call me, and they say, "Dee, how are you getting all your gigs?" But it's really a compliment, to say the least. They're very proud of me; they say it all the time. And you know, they're doing their thing, a lot in the area and abroad as well, but they're very amazed at how well I've progressed and grown over the years. And we have strong conversations, very candid conversations about the music business, about life in general. So to answer your question, yes, I still stay in contact with, you know, who I call friends.

Ira Sternberg: I think part of the reason that you get all these gigs, besides your talent, clearly, is you are an entrepreneur. Many people don't know that, but you are, in the best sense of the word. You are always generating business, you're always looking around for opportunities, you're always performing. All those three things come together, and I think that's the, and luck, of course, has to be in there as well. But I think being an entrepreneur really helps you, and maybe that's something you share with your friends so that they see how what you're doing and how you're doing it.

Dee Lucas: Right. Well, just being an entrepreneur, it puts you in a different mindset, a different headspace, in terms of it's all on you. If you don't pursue, you don't get, so to speak. So it's one of those things where, you know, if you work in Corporate America or whomever, then a lot of things are laid out for you. But as an entrepreneur, you have to create your path, and that creates a certain hunger. So I, that's just something I always wanted to strive for, is to own some things that I create. You know, there's an old saying, "Know what you own, and own what you know." But at the same time, you want to leave a legacy. I know personally, I want to leave a legacy behind, not only to my family but to generations of upcoming artists.

Ira Sternberg: That's a noble sentiment. I like it. I just thought of a slogan for you, and that is, "Dee Lucas is not on the payroll."

Dee Lucas: Sounds good to me. He doesn't have time to get on anybody's payroll other than his own because he's an entrepreneur. So there you go.

Ira Sternberg: Right, exactly. I want to switch from business to artistry. What goes on in your mind when you're playing the sax, either in a recording session or on stage? As we mentioned, you're going to be performing in the Copa Room at The Bootlegger Italian Bistro this Friday, October 20th, at 9:00 PM.

Dee Lucas: Creatively inside of me, I try… it's not about me, it's about the other people, the audience. It's about what I can deliver for them. I'm a big stickler for humanity. What can you do to make the world better? Everyone has a lot going on in their lives or has experienced some things. As a musician and an artist, I feel that one of my callings is to provide hope, to heal, to understand. Whether it's through a recording or on stage, it is my passion to deliver to those endpoints out there because they need something. They need something that can drive them home, something that can get them through the day, and I think that is my purpose in music.

Ira Sternberg: Are you consciously thinking that as you're performing, either in a recording setting or in a live performance?

Dee Lucas: Absolutely, because again, I'm constantly thinking about making a change, changing lives. That's my whole thing. I'm 56 years old, so I have seen, I have grown, I've seen the changes of what's going on in the world. I want to make a difference. I'm constantly thinking about how we can make things better, and that's the theme of my music. It's not about a lot of the things that you see right in front of you in terms of love or the entertainment part. I think I'm about content, storytelling that everyone can relate to.

Ira Sternberg: You mentioned you were 56; you look very young for 56. I'm 28, look how old I look.

Dee Lucas: Well, don't say that, man. You look just fine. But I tell you, I'm not really 28; I'm 25. But okay, tell you, I wanted to quote something about you, and this is a quote, so it's not me saying it. It says, "Your style, from a horn perspective, is different from that of many traditional smooth jazz artists in terms of melodic phrasing." Could you explain that a little bit more than I described it?

Dee Lucas: Yes, I can. Being self-taught puts you in a position where you have to learn almost trial by fire. You do things creatively, you learn things theoretically, traditionally, but at the same time, if you're learning if you're creating your own, you create your own sound. Whereas if I went through formal training as a 10-year-old, well, through formal training comes certain standards. You have to learn a certain way, study the standards, study the theory, and everything sounds the same. The biggest challenge with that, and it's not a bad thing, it's just an academia thing, is to develop your own sound. If you're self-taught, in my opinion, it's one thing to learn the theory side, but if you are basing things on what you hear from within, therein lies creativity, uniqueness, style. And I feel that's one of the lifelong challenges for any artist, to create their unique sound. If someone was to play your record and they can identify your sound within five seconds of that song, you have done something; you have created something magical.

Ira Sternberg: You mentioned something; you skipped over it in a way. I thought it was pretty profound, in the sense that you're self-taught. Because there are people that are self-taught and they don't reach the levels and production that you have or productivity that you have in terms of all the albums and performances. Did you make a conscious decision to be self-taught, or how did that work as opposed to having someone working with you to teach you or instruct you on how to play the sax?

Dee Lucas: Well, it definitely wasn't by design that I wanted to self-teach myself. It's just the way things played out in my life. I always wanted to play an instrument as a kid, but growing up in my environment, I grew up in a small town, and my family, you know, a hardworking family, so economics could be challenging. So it was one of those things where you pick sports or pick band, and in the community that I grew up in, the community really embraced sports more so. And I loved sports as well, so I opted for sports. But I've always wanted to pursue music. At some point in time, I said I'm going to pick up an instrument and create. So it wasn't until I graduated from college and moved to Atlanta when I picked up the saxophone. Now, picking up the saxophone and learning, that's where the challenges come because you don't know where to start. So that's where networking directly with people out in the communities, where you have a mentor, teaching lessons here and there, but weekly lessons with him, but I still have six more days to learn on my own. So there was a combination of working with someone, going out to the clubs, listening to live music to kind of get that hunger, that hunger as well, and at the same time, training your ear on what you hear on records, developing ear training, and just creating every day. And then time will progress, and you see the growth, and that's what happened to me over the years.

Ira Sternberg: I know you've been cited as the hardest-working indie artist in the music industry, and that ties in with your entrepreneurship, as well as what you just talked about being self-taught. That takes a lot of discipline, a lot of commitment over a long period of time to get to that level. So it's not just learning an instrument; it's learning an instrument to the point where you become a professional musician, and then you're recording and performing and touring. That's not easy. Are you, you mentioned earlier about mentors, have you thought about turning the tables in a way and becoming a mentor to other people who would like to become musicians and maybe not necessarily tutoring them but giving them the inspiration on one-on-one meetings or other kinds of connections to also follow the path that you took?

Dee Lucas: Absolutely. One of the things I definitely have made a self-note is that I do want to give back to those coming up under me. That's going to come up eventually, and they're going to take the torch. One of the things that I want to share, not so much the nuts and bolts of music, they're going to get that through their academia, their formal training, but the other side of the world, and that's the business side. So yes, I would like to talk to them, like to set up a consultation or what we call session shops, musical workshops, and talk about the business side because it's 85% business and 15% entertainment. Over historically, that's where a lot of our great artists have fallen into trouble, not knowing the business side. It wasn't balanced in their livelihood to know the business side parallel to the artistry side. But yes, I would definitely love to become more of a mentor to those coming up behind me to learn and have a balance.

Ira Sternberg: Yeah, I could see the Dee Lucas Camp, where you go and you learn the business side of music and the artist side of music, right? Or elements thereof, so you can get a sense. I think that's a great idea because you're absolutely right. Especially if you go back to the 30s, 40s, 50s, and into the 60s, where artists generally were taken advantage of because they didn't know the business side because they were creatives and they just wanted to focus on their art, and you had business people exploiting that.

Dee Lucas: And to add to that, timing is everything. Since that's something I want to pursue, I think personally I need more time. I need more under my belt to obtain for myself. I think there's a lot of experience that I need to go through so I can tell those stories. Right now, my career is still building. Even though I've been a recording artist, next in 2024 will make 20 years as a solo recording artist. However, it seems like yesterday. As an indie artist, it seems like you're growing, it gets better every year, but the years add up. So I think for me personally, and I'm just being humble with this, I think I need more time before I get in front of someone to consult or advise because I'm still learning as well.

Ira Sternberg: Yeah, no, that's totally understandable. And you're going to do it between nine and seven also, so I thought I'd throw that in there as a little cue to the point that you got your start as a musician as a sideman in a local band called Between 9 and 7. For those who may not know, so I thought I'd throw that in there. And you have a record label, ODL Music. So tell us a little bit about that. Again, you're the guy with ODL, right?

Dee Lucas: Well, I formed that one in 2016. Basically, the story behind why a music label? Well, it's still part of the music, the business component of it, is that whatever you create, you need to own and protect. And by learning all aspects of the music business, why not create a record label, a record company that you can manage, self-manage, and just watch everything prosper around you? It's not easy, but I find it to be very fun, inspiring, challenging, and the rewards are great. The things that you see now are what you're planting seeds for the years to come. So that's what I see in my record label, continued growth of ownership.

Ira Sternberg: I want to talk to you a little bit about your performance coming up again at the Copa Room, or in the Copa Room, at The Bootlegger Italian Bistro, August 20th at 9:00 PM. You're going to be playing some of the music from your new album, "No Boundaries," correct?

Dee Lucas: That is correct. This is my 10th album. It was released earlier this year. But I'm going to feature some of the songs from the current record, but also going to inject some other songs from the entire catalog. And I may put some special covers in there, some "Friendly Fire," as we call it. But yeah, I definitely want to push the current record. The record has been doing really well this year, very pleased with it. There's a lot of good stuff ahead, but it's going to be a lot of fun. But the main thing at the Copa Room in Las Vegas is that I want to be able to put smiles on people's faces.

Ira Sternberg: Well, I'm getting just a vibe, not only from you but from your single, which is from that album, which I assume will be performed as well.

Dee Lucas: Absolutely. Thought I'd throw that in there. It was a little clever rapport, right? If I can do that.

Ira Sternberg: So now, when you're performing, do you… are you solo, or do you work with backup musicians?

Dee Lucas: Oh yeah, I work with backup bands. I just think it's very important to communicate with musicians on stages. It's part of having a dialogue. I just prefer to communicate and have fun with backing musicians. And the good thing about it is that when you perform in different markets, you're playing with a lot of different styles of musicians. I think that's great too because sometimes the unknown puts you on notice. I like what he's doing, and it sometimes brings out the best in you as well because you don't know what they can bring. Something to the table that you don't have, and I think that's the art side, the creativity side.

Ira Sternberg: I would think it's also the other way around too, where these musicians that you interact with and play with at different venues and in different towns and cities, they'll get something from working with you.

Dee Lucas: Yeah, absolutely. I think from where they sit, I think they definitely see it as a plus. It's a challenge as well because every artist is different. Every artist is different, not only from a musical standpoint but from a character standpoint, a personality standpoint. And it also teaches them on how to raise their game or to maintain a certain level of musicianship.

Ira Sternberg: How important is humor in jazz and in your performance? Is it an element, or are you very serious in communicating what you want to communicate, as we discussed earlier?

Dee Lucas: A little bit of both. I think I'm serious about the craft. I don't want to dumb it down in terms of the integrity of the music. But at the same time, music is supposed to be fun. I think you're supposed to have fun performing. It's again, it's called communication without talking. So how can you do that without talking? And that's the fun part. How do you figure it out? But at the same time, you don't want to get on stage and just not protect the music. And what I mean by that, if you're going to play a note, play the note. It's the best note that you can because it may not be your… that may be the last time you play that note again. So that's my mentality, is that play it, play it with passion, play it with meaning because these people out there are listening to you, and you are having a conversation with them. And it's just like you and I talking. You don't want me just to say anything to you. You want me to say something with meaning, right?

Ira Sternberg: Exactly, exactly. So that's the communication. So therefore, it has to be protected. It has to be serious. But the content can be human, and how we go about it can be human, but the results of it have to be serious. There are musicians I've seen them where, especially on the jazz side, where they perform in clubs and they're a little standoffish on stage. They seem to be in their own world and they're not communicating. They're like too cool for the room. So as a result, they're a little bit aloof and the audience can pick up on that, except some of the audience is aloof because they're in that jazz genre feel that one gets sometimes. But I like your approach, which is to be serious about the music, the integrity of the music, but at the same time have fun with what you're doing.

Dee Lucas: Absolutely. And I tell you, we live in an information world. We live with the internet. The best thing about the internet is that it has allowed us to connect directly with the people. It has allowed us to talk to people over in Brazil, over in the UK, without much more directly. But at the end of the day, people want to be a part of something. So as an artist, open up to them. They want to get in your world. They want to be a part of an artist. They want to know where you are, how you approach things. But if you are standoffish, it doesn't go as well because they want to feel a part of something.

Ira Sternberg: Right, even after the show, even if you're not selling music, if you take a picture with them and say, "Hey, thanks for coming out," you have made a direct connection to them, and they feel so much… they feel special about that. That's a special part right there. It is. It's a part of growing and maintaining your fan base too, which you're very acutely attuned to. And I think it makes sense on a human level as well as we talked about earlier. You're really connecting once the performance is done and you're talking with people. You're connecting with them on a human level, and that leaves an impression for a long, long time.

Dee Lucas: Absolutely. You know, the days of when the show is over, you go in the back, in the limousine, and you're out, those days are over because those people, after you give that performance, they are in the lobby. They're waiting for you to come out and talk to them. They may have questions. Who knows, it could be a musician out there in that lobby. They may want to ask you a question, and you can dialogue and provide that for them. You never know, and it's surprising. You may find out that somebody that you met that night turns out to be a club owner in another city and says, "Hey, you know, Dee, come on over, perform here too." It's part of the network process.

Ira Sternberg: Before I let you go, what are you looking at for the next, say, five years in terms of your overall plan? You're looking to grow as an artist. I'm making assumptions here, but I think it's true, to grow as an artist, to obviously grow your label, and to develop other interests as well. But I'll shut up now and let you actually tell us.

Dee Lucas: Well, yeah. Importantly, it's definitely to grow as an artist internally as an artist. The biggest challenge is that I don't want to put out music that sounds the same. You find yourself writing the same thing over and over again. So in order for that to happen, two things, in my opinion, have to happen. I have to stay in tune with what's going on around, whether current events or what's going on in everyone's lives. And the other thing is, I think to be successful, whether it's music or any business, I think you should always have some type of team, whether it's a third-party team. Success, you have to have support. You have to have a supporting cast. And I think for me, musically, in order for me to grow, I have to continue to get involved with producers that can elevate what I'm trying to say.

Ira Sternberg: Well, that's a great way to leave it. My guest has been saxophonist, recording artist, and composer Dee Lucas. He's performing in the Copa Room at The Bootlegger Italian Bistro this Friday, October 20th, at 9:00 PM. And for ticket information, go to aegrlv.com. And for everything about Dee Lucas, including his new album, which we talked about, "No Boundaries," go to dlucas.com. And follow him on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. And Dee, thanks for being on the show.

Dee Lucas: Thank you. It was a pleasure.

Ira Sternberg: See you next time.